Q&A: Taylor Swift takes centre stage in Western University law school course

Taylor Swift's career has been defined by more than chart-topping hits and sold-out stadiums. From battles over music ownership to high-stakes contract negotiations and copyright protections, her work has also reshaped the way we think about entertainment law.

That makes her the perfect case study for Mohamed Khimji, who first created a course called Law: Taylor's Version at Queen's University. Now, as the newly appointed Dean of Western University's Faculty of Law, Khimji is bringing the course to London.

London Morning host Andrew Brown sat down with him to talk about why Taylor Swift offers such a powerful lens for teaching law, and how students are responding.

The following has been edited for length and clarity:

Andrew Brown: So, where did the idea come from to look at law through Taylor Swift?

Mohamed Khimji: Well, the idea came to me because it was a way to combine three of my biggest passions: law, teaching, and Swift herself. I'm a huge fan, and she's a unicorn, a really special individual. She did something no one had really done before: she made copyright and legal issues related to the music industry a water-cooler conversation. Everybody was talking about it. And I just saw an opportunity to design a course around that and to teach students about core issues that arise in the music industry.

AB: You're not just doing this because you think Taylor Swift is appealing to the students. You're in.

MK: Oh, I'm all in. Absolutely. This is a way to make material more relatable to students. The feedback I got from the Queen's students was very positive. They saw themselves in the course materials, and the fact that they could relate to it made them hyper-engaged. Classes were always very lively, full of discussion.

AB: What kind of legal issues do you look at in this course?

MK: We try to touch on most things that affect the music industry on a regular basis. The obvious one would be contracts, key issues like recording contracts, music licensing contracts, and so on. We also look at copyright. Of course, there was the famous dispute she had over the ownership of her masters and how she purchased them back recently.

We also look at the regulation of live music ticket sales. There was the big fiasco during the Eras Tour and the investigation into Live Nation and Ticketmaster, which touches on competition law issues. There are also consumer protection issues. Are ordinary people paying way too much for the opportunity to see live music? All of those issues are covered in the course.

LISTEN | New dean of law brings entertainment law class Law: Taylor's Verson to Western University:

AB: So what is it about Taylor Swift that has seen her have such a big impact on all of those things?

MK: That's a really good question. I don't know for sure, but I think it's three things. One is that she's a very talented songwriter. Few people would argue with that. She's extremely relatable, and she's prolific. She's relatable now because she's been doing this since she was a teenager, and now she's in her mid-30s.

Her body of work can relate to pretty much every demographic, at least every age group. And I think people just find her extremely inspiring. She has the courage of her convictions. She takes on people you wouldn't expect her to beat, and she does.

AB: How did it go over with students when you were teaching it at Queen's?

MK: It went really, really well. There was a lot of excitement about it initially. Enrollment filled up in 39 seconds, and there was even a petition to have a second section offered. It was really great.

AB: So, who is this course for? Which students at Western will be taking it?

MK: Second- and third-year law students. We have a largely mandatory first-year curriculum, so it's in their later years that students get to take most of their electives.

AB: So when something is relatable — or when you're talking about cases that people remember following through the news simply because they're fans of Taylor Swift — how does that impact the education side of things?

MK: I think it's extremely positive. My experience has been that students become hyper-engaged in the material. They really want to understand it because they care about the individual it's affecting. They read the material more carefully, they want to understand the legal issues, and it's highly beneficial.

AB: Has this changed the way you view teaching?

MK: I wouldn't say it's completely changed my view of teaching. At law schools, students need certain core fundamentals and building blocks. But I do see a role for courses like this for students finishing off their law school career, like in their third year, where the learning is more applied. They've acquired their fundamentals, they understand basic concepts, and now they're applying what they've learned to real-life case studies.

AB: Is Taylor Swift unique in this way, or could you see other celebrities being used as effective teaching tools?

MK: Not just celebrities, and not just pop culture. There's room for technology, for sports. Western Law, of course, has a Sports Law Institute. So there's room for real-life phenomena to inform how we teach law. It makes it more relatable, students become excited about it, and that only yields positive results.