INSS CPI will follow the money trail to uncover political support, says rapporteur

Rapporteur of the CPMI (Joint Parliamentary Commission of Inquiry) of the INSS (National Institute of Social Security), which will investigate deviations in retirement and pensions, deputy Alfredo Gaspar (União Brasil-AL) states that he will follow the money trail to reach the associations and, mainly, the politicians involved.

"These people wouldn't be able to divert resources without political support," he said, in an exclusive interview with Folha this Wednesday (20), hours after taking on the role.

The congressman was chosen as rapporteur in a surprise move, defeating the nominees of Senate President Davi Alcolumbre (União Brasil-AP) and House Speaker Hugo Motta ( Republicans -PB). He will serve alongside Senator Carlos Viana (Pode-MG), also from the opposition, who will preside over the proceedings.

Despite his opposition stance, Gaspar asserts that he will act impartially, "without labeling government A, B, or C," and that he will even seek the involvement of parliamentarians in the misappropriations. "Obviously, this will go against their interests. Now, whose interests? I don't know how to answer," he declares.

Gaspar had suggested hearing one of President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva's (PT) brothers before being chosen as rapporteur, but now says he will listen to the panel to find out who will be heard with priority.

But he argues that the Workers' Party member's brother, who is vice president of one of the suspected associations, should be one of those who testify. "I don't know if he has any kind of executive management position, but no one can clarify matters better than him," he says.

Read the congressman's interview for Folha below.

What will the CPI's line of investigation be? There's nothing better than tracking the money's trajectory when it comes to embezzlement. Where did the money go? In whose hands, in whose pockets? For whose benefit? I think it's the easiest way to minimize errors and determine the political backing that allowed yet another scandal of this nature to occur.

There's already a lot of behind-the-scenes and publicized information pointing to names that need to be interviewed, either to dispel suspicion or to delve deeper. Since this is a collegial effort, the collegial body itself must collaborate extensively, regardless of partisan affiliation, and indicate paths to be followed. And I will be sensitive enough not to hinder any feasible path in any way.

The Federal Police and the CGU have already investigated and indicted some of those involved. What can the CPMI do? These entities and their leaders cannot be left out [of the investigation]. That's one path to follow. The other path is political. These people wouldn't be able to embezzle funds without political support. Party affiliation doesn't matter. We can't choose who to investigate. Anyone involved will have to be exposed. We need to see if a member of parliament was involved. Obviously, that would go against their interests. Now, whose interests, I can't answer.

Workers' Party members say the CPMI will lose credibility if it only investigates the current administration, since you are right-wing. Will you also investigate the Bolsonaro administration? We don't need to partisanize an investigation. For an investigation to be credible, it must be based on the truth. Who will be affected by this? I can't say for sure today because I don't have that knowledge. But the investigation, which involves breaking data confidentiality and using material already produced by other institutions, will certainly provide avenues for further investigation.

But will you also investigate the Bolsonaro and Temer administrations? Wherever the misappropriation of funds is pointed out [we will investigate]. It's easy to conduct an investigation when it's based on misappropriation of funds, which is impossible to deviate from, okay? I'm not here to rubberstamp administration A, B, or C. Now, don't expect me to pat anyone on the back. Whoever has responsibility should take responsibility. I don't want to make premature judgments, but I'm also not going to do anyone a favor with someone else's hat.

The government is already compensating retirees. Will you listen to them too? Let's start discussing who we'll listen to now. I didn't want to anticipate anything that hasn't been discussed yet, okay? But reimbursement is absolutely mandatory. Now, if the reimbursement is to be doubled, all of this will be discussed during the investigation, suggestions, or legislative proposals.

The government didn't want you chosen as rapporteur. Are you worried that this might hinder the committee's investigations? I think the government always has the power. But I don't know if it has the power to obstruct the investigations, because anyone who takes that measure will be left with a very, very strong aura of suspicion. I think even for the government itself, the best of all worlds is for the facts to be clarified. And once the facts are clarified, we'll see this chain of command.

The opposition is talking a lot about summoning one of Lula 's brothers, José Ferreira da Silva, known as Frei Chico, who is vice president of one of the suspected entities. Will you summon him? Before the rapporteur was appointed, I had suggested hearing several people, including this gentleman. I don't know if he has any kind of executive management position, but no one is better placed to clarify this than he.

Who else did you ask to testify? Before the rapporteur was appointed, I had nominated seven to ten people. I recall that one of them was the former Minister of Social Security, [Carlos] Lupi, and the [lobbyist] known as the INSS bald guy. But obviously, as rapporteur, my role is a collegiate one, and we will prioritize the collegiate's decision.

The government supporters say the investigation will be biased because you're right-wing. I'm right-wing, yes, and very proud of it. I'm a decent guy, and I'll convey that in my report. Since I'm not being personally attacked, and I'm not being subjected to this pre-existing suspicion, people will have the opportunity to see the sequence of proceedings. Everything will be conducted based on evidence and proof.

I presided over the organized crime fighting group in Alagoas for seven years. I was twice head of the Public Prosecutor's Office and twice secretary of security. And wherever I went, I left a mark of decency. It won't be any different at the CPMI.

Born in Maceió, he served as a public prosecutor, Secretary of Public Security of Alagoas, and Attorney General of Alagoas for two terms. He resigned from the Public Prosecutor's Office to run for Mayor of Maceió in 2020, with the support of the Calheiros clan, but finished second. He is currently serving his first term as a federal deputy and is expected to run for the Senate in 2026.