Property owners are losing their apartments. All because of one provision

• Swindlers and criminals, under the guise of offering support, exploit seniors by entering into unfavourable contracts with them. The problem has grown especially in recent years - says Marzena Okła-Drewnowicz.
• We are increasingly dealing with situations where strangers, unrelated people who are not obliged to pay maintenance take over the apartments of elderly people - he points out.
• I am talking about clarifying the regulations related to the functioning of social assistance in terms of the obligation to provide care in exchange for housing - he explains.

You meet with seniors, including during public consultations on the bill on the senior voucher. Based on these meetings, can you say that fraud and scams are a real problem for seniors?

Marzena Okła-Drewnowicz, Minister of Senior Policy: Yes, it is a huge problem that has grown especially in recent years. And in many areas, because we can talk about apartment frauds, but also about "grandson" fraud, "policeman" fraud , about crime on the Internet.

The elderly are exposed to dangers from every side. According to data from the National Debt Register, between 2015 and 2023 their debt doubled - from three to six billion zlotys.

This is exploited by fraudsters and criminals who, under the guise of offering financial support , enter into contracts with seniors that are unfavorable for them.

By taking advantage of loopholes in the law?

Yes. In recent years , there has been no review of the system that would allow for their identification. When I took office, I asked all ministries for information on what they were doing for the elderly. I also started cooperation, which resulted in specific actions.

What activities are these?

I believe that it is necessary to increase awareness. Seniors must know where they can get information, what rights they have or how they can safely use the internet. I have had meetings at the Police Headquarters, during which we talked about protecting seniors from cybercrime. We will also establish a team that will develop appropriate methods for this purpose.

I also work with the Deputy Minister of Justice, Zuzanna Rudzińska-Bluszcz. In May, we will start a pilot of legal education.

Trainers will provide information on how to manage property, wills, donations, life annuity agreements, but also on domestic violence, online threats and the "grandchild" method. The pilot will cover the Świętokrzyskie province - this is the region with the highest average age in Poland.

Deputy Minister Rudzińska-Bluszcz is also working on a draft law on instruments of supported decision-making. This solution is to replace the institution of incapacitation.

Incapacitation is not a solution . However, a model of supported decision-making could be a facilitation and support for those elderly people affected by dementia - according to OECD estimates, in 2021 in Poland dementia occurred in sixteen out of a thousand people in the population.

But I would like the new solution to be available to seniors who do not have any signs of illness. I would like them to have such a safety valve.

Would this solution help protect them against, for example, apartment fraud?

We are increasingly encountering situations where strangers, unrelated people who are not obliged to pay maintenance take over the homes of elderly people.

I am talking about this with the Ministry of Family, Labor and Social Policy to clarify the regulations related to the functioning of social assistance in terms of the obligation to provide care in exchange for housing.

On Tuesday, Prime Minister Donald Tusk commissioned you to prepare recommendations on protecting seniors from "frauds and ordinary con artists."

I am at the stage of preparing them in various areas, I operate multi-aspect. Potential dangers result from, among others, life annuity or life annuity contracts - so far not regulated appropriately.

We need to go back to this. The National Notarial Council is also an important body, because it is at the notary's office that contracts are concluded, for example, the sale of an apartment.

In February, we talked about your idea for solving the problem of so-called fourth-floor prisoners, i.e. those elderly people who live on the upper floors of buildings and who - due to advanced age or health problems - cannot leave their own apartments. At what stage is this project today?

On Monday, at the meeting of the Government Work Programming Team, my application to include this project in the list of legislative works will be considered.

Today, local governments can offer seniors living in council flats on higher floors the option of moving to the ground floor. They do not have this option for those who own flats.

Senior tenancy could change this, while still ensuring that seniors retain full ownership rights . Whether someone takes advantage of this or not is their decision. However, I am an advocate of giving people the right to choose.

On Tuesday (6 May), Prime Minister Donald Tusk asked Minister Okła-Drewnowicz to urgently prepare, together with Minister of Justice Adam Bodnar, recommendations on how Polish law can effectively protect seniors against fraud and ordinary scammers.

He also referred to reports about the apartment of Karol Nawrocki, a candidate for president supported by PiS. Onet revealed that Nawrocki is the owner of, among other things, a studio apartment in the Siedlce district of Gdańsk, which previously belonged to an older man, Jerzy Ż.

Minister Marzena Okła-Drewnowicz, when asked about the planned solutions, assessed that the fraud of apartments from the elderly is a huge problem. She admitted that there are many loopholes in the current law that allow for these procedures. She emphasized that the regulations concerning, among others, life annuities and life annuity contracts should be looked at.

The Onet portal revealed last week that, contrary to Karol Nawrocki's declarations from the election debate, he is not the owner of one, but two apartments. In addition to the apartment in Gdańsk, where he lives with his family, he also has a studio apartment in Gdańsk. A few days later, the portal reported that in 2017 , Jerzy Ż. - the then owner of the studio apartment - transferred it to Nawrocki and his wife in exchange for care and maintenance, i.e. on the basis of a life annuity contract, but the man ended up in a social welfare home.

According to Nawrocki, his purchase of the studio apartment was fully lawful. PiS MP Przemysław Czarnek explained that in 2012, Nawrocki and his wife entered into an agreement with Mr. Jerzy to purchase the man's apartment no later than the end of March 2017.

He added that the land and mortgage registers contain a contract for the sale of the apartment and a notarial deed from March 6, 2017, which confirm that Jerzy Ż. sold the apartment to Nawrocki and his wife for PLN 120,000. On Wednesday, Nawrocki announced that he would donate the studio apartment in Gdańsk to charity.