Marcos Lisboa: The irony is that Trump has copied what is traditional in Brazil

In the assessment of economist Marcos Lisboa , surprisingly the United States has copied the 'worst of Brazil' and harmed governance, with decisions by the current administration that go against the independence of institutions and a republican culture.

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“It is very surprising that the United States is copying the institutions and rules of public policies that failed in Brazil,” said Marcos Lisboa, former president of Insper, former secretary of Economic Policy at the Ministry of Finance and former director of Itaú, who participated in the most recent edition of Dinheiro Entrevista .

According to the economist, Brazil has a “very authoritarian” tradition and public policy governance is a critical point in the country – while the US had a different heritage, but one that has been squandered by Donald Trump .

"There's a tradition in Brazil that's very authoritarian, both on the left and the right. 'I don't want to submit to the governance of public policy. I don't want to have an independent central bank; I want to be able to dictate the central bank. I understand interest rates, right? I want to call the central bank and say, 'Low interest rates,'" he says.

"Good public policy follows the story of Ulysses: you tie your hands to the mast so you can't do much. If you want good governance, it means: 'My friends, you will have less power. Everyone will have less power. This will make the country richer.' Now the irony is that the United States is now trying to become Brazil," he adds.

According to Lisboa, the 'authoritarianism' of the current Trump administration is impressive, which is the same seen in Brazilian politicians, regardless of their 'ideological coloration'.

"Regarding several aspects of Brazil's economy, the terms [to describe them] are 'ecumenical.' Left and right share. You see how the votes are in parliament, in Congress, in the Senate. All these everyday tricks. People don't realize it because it doesn't make the news, but these are behaviors to get a bigger bite out of the state. I've mentioned this number several times: 80% on the left, 80% on the right. So, everyone is voting together, in unison, for concessions and the strengthening of patrimonialism. "

Among Trump's attacks on independent institutions, some of the most emblematic have been his jabs at Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell amid his continued call for lower interest rates.

"Our interest rates should be three points lower than they are, saving us $1 trillion a year (as a country). This stubborn guy at the Fed just doesn't get it—never has, and never will. The Board should act, but they don't have the guts to do it!" Trump wrote on his social media platform.

Appointed by Trump himself to head the Fed, Powell led the cycle of interest rate hikes in recent years to contain inflation, which reached its highest level in four decades.

Now, with prices falling, the former president is publicly pushing for faster cuts, claiming this would help boost the economy.

In speeches and interviews, Trump has called Powell "stubborn" and "backward," accusing him of not understanding the direction of the economy. But experts warn that this type of attack could undermine market confidence and create instability for investors, both inside and outside the United States.

The economist sees Brazil's fiscal situation as a set of distortions that have accumulated over time. In his view, the budget has lost credibility after successive maneuvers that masked expenses and undermined confidence in official figures.

"The budget is full of leaks. They've been creating various tricks: 'Look, this expense isn't included in the primary budget, I'll create a financial fund because it's not included in the primary budget,' and the debt keeps growing. I think the fiscal situation in 2027 is a major concern. The scale of the mess we'll have to face—and this with a very large agenda to accomplish," he analyzes.

Another point raised is the lack of consistent evaluation of public policies . Lisboa cites the number of subsidies, funds, and benefits granted by the state to the private sector without impact analysis, as well as the weight of judicial decisions that compromise approximately 10% of public spending. He believes the proliferation of interpretations in the judiciary and the creative use of rules increase uncertainty.

In the economist 's view, the core of the problem is the capture of the state by specific interests, coupled with persistent patrimonialism. He also criticizes the way the public sector concentrates decision-making power without sufficient oversight mechanisms.

This, he asserts, keeps the country far from structural solutions. The solution, in his view, lies in further limits on state power, independent evaluation bodies, and the closure of programs that fail to produce results.

"We give little thought to all these subsidies and benefits, funds, for example, that the state provides to the private sector. There's a whole debate about Brazilian judicial decisions, which are astronomical in number when compared to other countries. [They represent] 10% of public spending. But why? What's going on? Where's the error? [In] the judiciary's changing interpretations. The creativity with the rules. There's a very important discussion to ensure the state can fulfill its social role, and this discussion isn't happening," analyzes Marcos Lisboa .